The Return

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Impeachment Today Podcast: The Return Of The Mueller Report

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So it's wild though, that there's really not any smoking gun within the report itself. Just the report itself basically said, "Well the president is willing to do all of these shady things.

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I just can't charge him for it right now. And I think the overarching thing that did get us to this point is that from the very beginning, Trump was saying, "This is illegitimate, and I'm going to do everything I can to try and stop it and undermine it.


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And all of that goes back to all the effort that Trump and his supporters put in to trying to shift focus away from Russia, this idea that Russia tried to interfere, they say is not supported. It's what the favor was that Trump was asking for was to continue helping him try to undermine the legitimacy of what Mueller was doing even though that investigation ended months ago. One of the things that's been crystal clear from the jump, once we started learning about the whistleblower and all of this, and especially once the transcript ish was released was, how much of what Giuliani was doing was about discrediting the Mueller report?

But the rabbit holes he went down just seemed kind of cuckoo bananas and just don't really make sense, especially when you consider that the president said the report totally exonerated him. What was their thinking in trying to push these alternative narratives? The big alternate narrative was that it was Ukraine, not Russia.

So Giuliani was traveling to Ukraine, trying to set up meetings with Ukrainians to get proof that, in fact it was the Ukrainians or the previous Ukrainian regime, not the current Ukrainian regime, not the new one that Trump was engaging with this year, that they were trying to interfere in the election on behalf of Hillary Clinton, or at least to help Hillary and trying to smear Trump by making it look like he was in bed with the Russians.

And that's what Giuliani was traveling around the world trying to get at, at least in part. So over the weekend, a bunch of new documents dropped, thanks to you and other Buzzfeed News colleagues about the Mueller report and some of the workings behind it. We got a lot of descriptions about the interviews that Mueller and his team were collecting. What are some of the new things that we've learned, especially as they play into this whole impeachment inquiry?

One thing that was super interesting was we saw that as soon as news broke, that the DNC had been hacked, that WikiLeaks had these emails, that within the Trump campaign back in , people like Paul Manafort who was running the campaign at the time, people like Michael Flynn, who was advising the president and would go on to be his first very short lived national security advisor, that they were already saying, "Not Russia, Ukraine.

It's so wild because Paul Manafort has been at the center of a lot of this, I remember seeing in the New York Times recently that Manafort, even though he was fired by the campaign, was still working with them and was suggesting very heavily, even through the transition period that this was Ukraine, even though Manafort's one of the only people who's gone to jail over the things we've learned from the Mueller report. So there's a lot of self interest in pushing back on this narrative. And somewhat, I don't know if irony would be the right word, but he's in jail because of all the money he took from Ukrainian oligarchs to do work on their behalf and then hid that money from the IRS.

So everything comes full circle. Everything comes full circle. Speaking of which though, so one of the things that Mueller basically hinted at very strongly in his report was, "I can't prosecute the president, but someone, Congress, you can do something about this. Do we get an article of impeachment based on the report?

It's hard to say. I think the momentum is so strongly now among Democrats in pushing the more recent events as the reason why Trump should be impeached. It really was hard for them to gain traction after the report came out in terms of getting the American people to continue to care about and what Mueller found with respect to that, it was wishy washy on whether Trump actually committed any crimes or did anything wrong.

And absent a clear statement like that, it seemed like it had died down and that it was this new communication with Ukraine that got everyone really excited and then if they're going to get the American people behind them in pushing impeachment, that it needs to be this new thing and not this thing that everyone was just exhausted by. And yet despite that house, Democrats are still pushing to get all the rest of the information underlying the report.

That could still change, right? I mean we're still in court talking about Mueller, which is fascinating.


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Court can move so slowly that things that happened years ago suddenly pop up and become important. So Democrats are still in court trying to get Mueller's grand jury materials, some of which is what Buzzfeed was able to get through our FOYA case this weekend. They're still trying to get it and they're arguing that it's still part of the impeachment inquiry because all of these different investigations into Trump, they all still fall under the impeachment umbrella.

That's what speaker Nancy Pelosi said. It's not just Ukraine, it's everything they're doing up till now, going forward is all about what could be impeachable. So they're saying it's relevant. So, okay, let's fast forward. It's a year in the future.

How to return items?

We've time warped to just before the election. Have people finally read the Mueller report by then? I think if you were going to read it, you would've read it. But maybe college students to come in the future, maybe have to read it for class, but I feel like if you were going to do it, you would have done it and now it's just going to sit, gathering dust on your shelf.

Logic - The Return (Official Audio)

Again, much like War and Peace. Thank you Zoe for the that. Okay, but before we let you go, it is time for the kicker where we ask our guests to bring in a tweet, a quote, something that really sums up to them where we are in this moment. So Zoe, what do you got? So I have a tweet from a fantastic journalist, Emily Tamkin, a former Buzzfeeder and beloved colleague of ours.

She tweeted on October 17th, "I just feel like if you're going to play "What the framers would have wanted," you must first articulate how you personally would explain to the framers Gestures broadly. I for one, would love to go back and try to explain to Thomas Jefferson what the fuck is happening right now. Thank you, Zoe, for bringing that extremely perfect tweet to our attention. All right. It's time to testify, the segment where we look at who's testifying next and what to expect.

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And today, okay, I got to say it's really up in the air right now. House investigators have said they want a slew of Trump officials to speak to them before the process moves on to open hearings. But they are not only refusing to speak voluntarily, they're now refusing to answer subpoenas, that includes several members of the White House staff, including the acting head of the Office of Management and Budget, but they aren't budging Among those Democrats we'd love to hear from, but may not, includes two key national security figures, NSC lawyer, John Eisenberg and former national security advisor, John Bolton, both of them have been asked to appear before the house, but Eisenberg blew off his subpoena on Monday.

Things could change, but don't be surprised if the next person we know will testify does so in front of cameras. Okay, that's it for today. Come back tomorrow for more as we press on undaunted through the tides of faith that seek to overtake us with so Goddamn many tweets. Also, since as always, we want to hear from you, all this week please send us the impeachment things you're most curious about. What are your questions? What doesn't make sense? Open up the voice memo app on your phone.

Tell us your questions and email it to impeachment buzzfeed. We'll be including some of the responses on a future episode. So tell us your name and where you are in the world. Be sure to subscribe on the iHeartRadio app , Apple Podcasts , Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts — and maybe leave a rating and a review.